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I was just listening to podcast #5 of "What's on Joe Mind" and the topic of the subscription figures and new tooling came up. The consensus seemed to be that IF the subscription is about $300, then we should expect to see some new tooling.

I both agree and disagree, so I thought I would bring the topic here. I agree because at $25 we got some new tooling for Dial-Tone, who seems to be the starting ground for subscription figure planning.

But I somewhat disagree because I also think that the first subscription set should pave way for next year. I don't want to see this be a one-time thing.

Dial-Tone is the obvious good example. But I think this is also a case where we need to dig into our not-too-distant history for another shiningly similar situation. That situation was DTC wave 4. Fans were crying for those. The club came through and delivered them. But they still sit in their warehouse at clearance prices. Why? There may be a few reasons, but I think that the dominant factor is timing. It took how long to get those out? They were originally supposed to hit in (I think) mid 2006 and the last 2 (plus the club bonus Copperhead) hit in early 2009. And don't point the finger at the club on that one. Hasbro pushed the date back several times.

My point is that the subscription figures -- if they are to include cancelled figures at all -- need to be able to get put in the subscription line-up quickly. This is why I don't think the club should announce the second half of the subscription figure list. They need to be able to change it as needed.

For subscription year 1, I think there are so many choices of cancelled figures that the need for new tooling is low. In time, I can see straight repaint possibilities dwindling and new tooling becoming more of a necessity. So while I would like to see it, I am expecting to see it a lot less with this first go around. And I hope we support the subscription figure system so that in the future we may be able to get even more.

So then the end question was what subscription figures would you like to see.

I'd like to see the arctic Cobra Commander from the Resolute comic pack. That body could easily be altered to make the arctic Cobras from the Resolute cartoon.

Since this is a collector-oriented set, I would like to see more Resolute. The club could slowly finish off every character from the show since there aren't that many that remain.

I also think that variety will be one of the keys to success. If the initial set of Nano-BAT and Quarrel are any indication of that, it will be a great variety of characters.

I've brought this up on other forums, but I think the first thing to take in to consideration is that over the last 10 years the club has NEVER, not even once, given us a figure with entirely new tooling. They did deliver the DTC wave 4 stuff, but that's not a club creation.

So, I would not have any expectations of new tooling. Really the best the subscription has to offer in my opinion is an outlet for releasing cancelled figures, as well as a way to get more mileage out of molds via repaints. Right off the top between Python Patrol, Tiger Forcer, Slaughter's Marauders, etc. You're looking at several years worth of potential figures with tooling that already exists...pure profit for the club.

I suspect this is what the majority of the offerings will be. Initially, in an effort to get us to sign up I think they may throw us a bone or two with things like City Strike Scarlett, or maybe the cancelled Mech drivers, but after that I'm betting on repaint central with the occasional newly tooled head. Although if they can get creative enough with it, I'm okay with that.

POC wave 5 and 6 are all for the most part, kitbashes and repaints, and while some are serious misses, I think others are killer. Even though it's not perfect I think Crazy Legs is a FANTASTIC kit bash given the parts used. There literally isn't one new part used, and yet they managed to give us a figure people wanted, that really looks like it was built that way, minus the hole in his chest, if we didn't know where those parts came from I think people would be much more receptive to that figure, and if the club has enough creative minds behind this, we could really end up with some great stuff.

Between cancelled figs from 25th, ROC, and POC as well as repaint sub-series potential, and easy kitbash opportunities (like Slice, who's mask comes with the current SE) I think this subscription could be a great way to get us things we would likely never see at retail. Personally, I can't wait to sign up!

For $300 I'd expect some new tooling on the figures.

This first year will be make or break for this service. They can't get it wrong. If they charge $300 and the figures suck then no one would want to sign up for the next year. If they charge $300 and it's all canceled figures and repaints with no new tooling then I think there will be less orders.

They have to find the middle ground between new tooling, repaints and price point. Which will be hard. But I think if they get it wrong then there won't be a chance to get it right the next year. They have to hit it out of the park right out of the gates.

BUT if they say "we're going to do canceled figures/repaints this year but at a lower price so we can work the kinks out of the system and make sure it all works well before we go gung-ho in the second year" that would be the way to do it.

Do a $150 service or something if it's just repainted and canceled figures. Use the first year to not set expectations of the figures but to get the service up and running and working smoothly then the 2nd year they can say "we're introducing new tooling so the subscription price is going up".

The first two figures, Quarrel and Nano-Bat, are not worth $25 IMO.

The other thing they could do is make two price points. One for a repainted figure and one for new tooled figure.

Also I want (and to an extent need) to know who the full figures are (not the 13th) in order to throw down $300 bucks. Thats alot of money for not knowing what you're getting. I already don't want the Nano-Bat.

If that's what you think, then I can guarantee you the Subscription figures are not for you. I'm sure the Club lead with what they felt were the BEST possible figures they could release.

I think a $25 a figure is the least the club is going to sell the figures for...I also think it's the most people are going to be willing to pay...at least people in the numbers the club needs to sell to make the venture work.

I struggle to come up with a full list of 13 figures the club is going to put out, especially ones I'd pay $25+ for. I really don't see them willing to put Night Force or Tiger Force figures out single carded when those figures would be solid ideas to base Con Sets around. After that...there's not much left that has much interest

Well as seen with this years Python set they feel free to take some liberties, they aren't all straight up vintage remakes. Like Python Motor-Viper, Parachute Tele Viper, and Python Croc Master.

Plus with Tiger Force they already released Duke and Flint in 25th, and Roadblock was already ready to go they just never released him. So, it's not like they could give us a complete TF con set anyway. I see them doing some weirder repaints like the white haired TF Outback in the club. Same with Night Force, I'd say it's obvious we'll get the cancelled Falcon repaint since he was already carded and ready to go, they've probably already got a warehouse full of them. We've already had a NF Tunnel Rat, and (sort of) NF Outback, so...

I guess what I'm getting at is since Hasbro already released some sub team repaints on single cards, there's no reason the club can't continue on with that.

I just hope that whatever they end up doing they don't try anything too ambitious without new tooling. Like repainting Scarlett in to Pythona or something horrid like that. I also hope that they really evaluate their price point for this. This isn't Matty Collector doing He Man or Ghostbusters. These are much smaller figures, using pre-existing molds, there is no reason for them to cost $30 each, and there is definitely a reason why the club still has tons of their expensive subscription figures and DTC figures they are trying to unload, so I hope they take that into consideration when pricing this.

If I was the club right now, I wouldn't be thinking as much about what specific figures should be in the lineup, but instead how to make it the most diverse I can. Then I'd try to make that 13th figure be a high-profile item that appeals to as many people as possible. Sgt. Slaughter (Warthog or Marauders) would be my first choice. If that didn't work, I'd try to find something similarly huge.

For diversity, I would have a bunch of categories in mind like these:
Past Con set booster Joe
Past Con set booster Cobra
Future Con set "preview" figure
_______ Force Joe
_______ Force Cobra
Character from 87-94 in 25th style (non-______ Force figure)
Never-before-made Marvel comics Joe
Never-before-made Marvel Comics Cobra
Devil's Due figure
IDW figure
Never-before-made Sunbow Joe
Never-before-made Sunbow Cobra
Resolute figure
Renegades figure
International Joe
International Cobra
Unused Concept figure (like the McQuarrie Star Wars figures...the Blowtorch running change would be one example of not having to retool for this)
Canceled figure
64-78 era character (boost the AT set and/or give us Bullet Man)
GvC/ST/VvV/RR/Sigma 6 figure
Extreme/Savage/Action Man figure
Cross-sell (another cross-over like Matt Trakker. Do MASK, Inhumanoids, Transformers, etc)

Some figures would strike out more than one category. But they are only doing 13 figures and I just listed over 20 things to think about. I really don't think there would be any harm in putting in a Night Force, Tiger Force, or similar repaint. Yeah, those are too useful to hurt a future con set. But one or two will whet the appetite for such a con set. And there are so many figures in those teams that they can't possibly make them all in one set.

By the time they get through the options that exist with current tooling and minor retooling (like new heads and accessories), there will be more parts to use and more Joe lore to dig through. I don't think they need to worry about not having ideas for hot con sets. They just need to plan ahead a bit.

I'm kind of worried that they're setting themselves up to fail.

2 figures a month seems like too much for this service right out of the gate.

First year needs to be treated like a trial year. Use it to get the kinks out of the system. Get it working properly before really jumping into the deep end.

$25 for a relatively simple repaint (like the Nano-Bat) is too much. $25 for a figure like Dial-Tone that had some new tooling is good.

I want this to work out. It could help the Joe collectors market but I'm not sure if the Club can pull it off.

I think the Mattel Masters of the Universe subscription service is the easy comparison. They sell theirs for $20 a piece. While they reuse a lot of molds, they also have to pay the Four Horseman to design and sculpt each character. Plus the plethora of accessories. If the Club moves too far from that $20 price range they aren't going to attract new members, which is the point of doing this in the first place. Also remember that the $20 Mattel is charging doesn't include an annual membership fee which you need in order to have a subscription.

They better post a full list and not hope people jump in blindly. The club has made too many mistakes for people to take them at their word. People need to know what they are spending money on. If they want to keep the 13th bonus figure a secret fine. But the rest need to be known before the subscription goes up. And they should probably say who the 13th figure is to boot.

As for figures you can bet on Footloose and Iron Klaw. After that only the club, Hasbro and Gyre Viper know for sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's 1 figure every month, with them being shipped out every other month...so 2 figures every 2 months...at least that's how I understood it.